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Landlord’s fury over rules for outside plastic beakers
The Rhu Bar, in London Street, Basingstoke
The Rhu Bar, in London Street, Basingstoke

A LANDLORD has slammed rules that force him to serve drinks in plastic beakers to customers sitting outside.

Rob Bates, owner of Rhu Bar, in London Street, Basingstoke, fears a ban on traditional glasses and glass bottles could hit his business.

He said he has not had any trouble in the eight years he has owned the bar, and does not understand why the condition was attached to his licence by borough councillors.

Mr Bates appealed to Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council's licensing committee against the condition without success in February.

He said: "I don't see how my customers drinking out of plastic is going to stop trouble in London Road. My business doesn't contribute to the trouble police say there is in the town.

"It's already affecting my summertime trade. Customers come for a bottle of wine and two glasses and we have to pour the bottle into a jug for them to take outside and we can't keep it cool.

"I'm going to lose all that summer trade, and my customers, who are 25, 30 or 40 years old, don't want to drink out of plastic beakers."

He added that about 100 customers have already signed a petition in the bar to keep real glasses.

Linda Cannon, licensing manager at Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council, said: "The street where Rhu Bar is located is ranked the fourth highest in the borough for violent crime, with 37 incidents reported over a 12-month period.

"For this reason, the council, in discussion with the police, imposed a condition that plastic beakers be used just for those drinking outside in bars in this area of the town as a precautionary safety measure, to stop the risk of glass being used in any fights or anti-social behaviour."

Not all licensees agree with Mr Bates. Carol Freeman, the owner of Tonic, which has a London Street drinking area like Rhu Bar, said the ban on glass is a good idea.

She said plastic beakers meant staff did not have to worry about broken glass.

Mrs Freeman said the plastic beakers were tough, so she had never had customers complain about them, and she did not lose out financially because the drinks industry provided them for free.

She said using the street for her business was a privilege, adding: "It's a public highway, so we have to adhere to the rules and regulations."

South Central Ambulance Service spokeswoman Michelle Ullett said ambulance crews see people permanently disfigured as a result of broken bottles and glasses being used as weapons.

"The solution is very easy - these horrendous injuries could easily be avoided if bars and nightclubs introduced polycarbonate bottles and beakers for their customers," she said.

Bob Edwards, chairman of the Campaign for Real Ale's North Hampshire branch, said members felt plastic could alter the taste of their drink and they preferred the feel of proper glasses.

He added: "We'd always ask for a proper glass, but we do understand for outside events it might be necessary to use plastic for safety reasons."

10:39am Monday 12th May 2008

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Posted by: Philo Heath, Basingstoke on 11:35am Mon 12 May 08
I do not usually comment but I feel we are pandering to the lowest common drinkers by doing this, what next beakers with lids to avoid drinks being thrown in peoples faces.

WEe do not tackle the problem the aggressive in society we know them they start the trouble so ban them not the glasses, If I sit outside Cafe Rouge in the afternoon with a bottle of wine do I want a plastic glass?

How many cases of problems with wine glasses have there been? How many cases with other glasses? What is the size of the problem? Is there a problem no one has complained to me as a councillor?

Everytime we give in to drunks and louts we say it is ok, you do not need to change society will, it is ok to to drink out of glass inside but not out side do fights never start inside?

It is time to stop and tackle the problems, if landords fail to stop drunkeness and fights take their licence away, if people cause trouble ban them leave the 99.9% of law abiding people alone.

As Councillors we have huge powers use them now.

Phil Heath
Posted by: Andy C, Basingstoke on 12:19pm Mon 12 May 08
How does this affect the eateries at the bottom of town?

Do I have put up with a platic beaker when I'm eating outside with my friends, best make sure they have a decent selection of plastic knifes and forks wouldn't want these being used as a weapon.

I'm sure the police have a point, but I would be interested to see out of the 3 al fresco agreas at the top of town which if these has the highest crime rate.

Posted by: Nothing changes, Southampton on 12:30pm Mon 12 May 08
This is ridiculous! They should take into account the kind of venue for a start. Comparing Rhu Bar to Tonic or whatever it's called is just impossible! Rhu Bar is one of the nicest bars I've ever been to, really chilled out, really relaxed and no atmosphere or trouble at all. Places like that should be encouraged not forced into the position they are being. Good luck to Rob.

In the meantime, how are they going to stop the youths with glass bottles of vodka wandering aimlessly through the town centre? Thats where the problem lies!
Posted by: Picket Dewfury, Basingstoke on 1:32pm Mon 12 May 08
Good idea, it is common place elsewhere in the town - some venues reduce risk further by not allowing glass indoors either.

If this landlord does not want to act responsibility as drink fulled violence escalates then I hope some of the good town Councilors who sit on the licensing committee are paying attention to this.
Posted by: Billy Nomates, Basingstoke on 1:46pm Mon 12 May 08
Excuse me? What has Tonic got to do with this? It is run by respected members of the licenced trade who have worked very hard to improve standards and raised safety. They were solely responsible for launching the 'Pubwatch' scheme when they owned The George.

I also don't recall them having any policy to bar the disabled from entry like Robert Bates and his empty, attention seeking, grotty little bar either.
Posted by: Billy Nomates, Basingstoke on 1:47pm Mon 12 May 08
Excuse me? What has Tonic got to do with this? It is run by respected members of the licenced trade who have worked very hard to improve standards and raised safety. They were solely responsible for launching the 'Pubwatch' scheme when they owned The George.

I also don't recall them having any policy to bar the disabled from entry like Robert Bates and his empty, attention seeking, grotty little bar either.
Posted by: Picket Dewfury, Basingstoke on 2:33pm Mon 12 May 08
Oh! It's the bar than banned the disabled! Is this guy just looking for a bit of unpaid advertising in the local paper again? Oh brother. . .

Posted by: Large, Hampshire on 3:28pm Mon 12 May 08
Don't see the problem with this. They don't have to be those hideous thin plastic cups that squeeze your beer all over your shirt when you pick it up - polycarbon is just as strong as glass, but doesn't shatter into sharp pieces for use as a weapon. It's law in places like Bournemouth, and I believe should be so UK-wide.
Posted by: BonzoDog, local on 3:44pm Mon 12 May 08
I thought the world was going anti-plastic with the end of the free shopping bag saga?
It obviously isn't that important an issue environmentally is it?

But for safety reasons it's probably best to go the plastic way before a glass is shoved in someones face, rather than afterwards....
Posted by: Philo Heath, Basingstoke on 5:22pm Mon 12 May 08
I am sorry this is just over the top 37 violent incidents in 12 months is nothing.
I suspect most are minor violence anyway, most towns can name a venue pub or club that has more than that in 1 pub let alone a whole street full.

To argue the top of town is dangerouse is wrong, we will end up killing trade with people too worried to go there.

Should we have plastic knives, forks, plates and oh chairs made of Balsa wood as used in films.

Treat people as adults and they respond as adults.
Posted by: Picket Dewfury, Basingstoke on 6:11pm Mon 12 May 08
Having plastic glasses can only make it safer - do you have a problem with that?

Most responsible premises have identified the risk and acted without trying to get some cheap publicity out of it.

Then again, some people think minor violence and abuse is an acceptable way for 'adults' to act, don't they Mr Heath.
Posted by: BonzoDog, local on 7:09pm Mon 12 May 08
Crime grows as punishments get softer. It's a fact that we must prepare for by decreasing the weapons available to the drunken brawlers.

It won't discourage people from going out - in fact it will do just the opposite.
Posted by: Billy Nomates, Basingstoke on 8:14pm Mon 12 May 08
I don't think the punishment has ever got any softer, if that was the case the prisons would not be fuller now than they ever were.

As for stopping people going out, this is not aimed at doing any such thing. It is about identifying a risk and dealing with it. A risk designed to reduce injury. It is not just about drunken fights and getting glassed, it is also about drunks doing injury to themselves accidentally. Any caring, decent publican would embrace any such move.

Lots of other venues have switched to plastics without any fuss, but then some people are responsible in selling intoxicating spirits.
Posted by: BonzoDog, local on 7:55am Tue 13 May 08
I fear this is just another publicity stunt by Rob Bates, owner of Rhu Bar, or maybe he's just a habitual complainer?
Maybe he should pop in here and have a moan or three instead of grabbing the headlines with another daft idea?
Posted by: Billy Nomates, Basingstoke on 10:05am Tue 13 May 08
It's the Gazette Advertising department that wants to be kicking itself - it's just given the bloke a massive publicity boost completely free of charge!

Who is fronting up the show as head of advertising? Homer J Simpson?
Posted by: Toros, Basingstoke on 10:47am Wed 14 May 08
Its a simple solution. People should know when they have had enough to drink.
Posted by: BonzoDog, local on 11:47am Wed 14 May 08
Unfortunately Toros, many people do drink much too much, but not all of them resort to violence as a result of.

Most know when they've had enough and it's usually when they keep falling over, and/or emptying the contents of their stomachs and bladders wherever they may be.
It's called "fun!"
Posted by: Gavin James, Basingstoke on 8:13pm Wed 14 May 08
I am surprised at Phil Heaths comments

"37 violent incidents in 12 months is nothing"

I am sure the victims have different view. Perhaps Mr Heath does not understand the impact of violent, threatening or abusive behaviour can have on the victim.

It may also be worth noting that the figure of 37 violent incidents is the 'year to date' figure (Jan, Feb, Mar) probably the quiet time of year for drinking outside, not the past 12 months.

He is right to suggest that pubs and bars that cause trouble should lose their licence to serve alcohol. I understand that the current laws make this difficult.

The Liberal Democrats put a motion before Parliament asking for the law to be changed, empowering local people to close pubs and bars that cause violent behaviour. The Conservative MP's chose not to support it.
Posted by: Billy Nomates, Basingstoke on 7:23am Fri 16 May 08
I was just wondering if those '37 violent incidents' are just a small percentage with people not reporting minor scuffles. AFAIR violent incident is ''an act of aggression''. Perhaps Cllr Heath, who managed to get away almost scot free for his aggressive behaviour, has an empathy for the perpetrators?

It must be terrible to have a medical condition that can have such a crippling effect on your ability to treat people with respect. It seems to be no better months later if he is saying these violent incidents are 'nothing'. Ummmm. Did you elect him again?
Posted by: Julie, Basingstoke on 9:11am Tue 20 May 08
I hate to have to admit it, but I agree with Billy Nomates and Bonzo on this one. Glass is a safety issue for everyone including bar staff and shoppers the next day. Maybe the only reason Rob Bates thinks his bar is not a source of trouble is because he doesnt have to lift a finger to deal with any of the alcohol induced affrays at the top of town. He leaves that to his bully boys at the front door - the ones that took the crutches away from a disabled lady who was not allowed to enter his cruddy establishment. Making the area a safer place to socialise will encourage people to go there. And FYI Cllr Heath, ANY violence is unacceptable. If you want to use glass, get a bottle from the off license or supermarket and drink at home. Set a good example for once.
Posted by: Julie, Basingstoke on 9:46am Tue 20 May 08
I hate to have to admit it, but I agree with Billy Nomates and Bonzo on this one. Glass is a safety issue for everyone including bar staff and shoppers the next day. Maybe the only reason Rob Bates thinks his bar is not a source of trouble is because he doesnt have to lift a finger to deal with any of the alcohol induced affrays at the top of town. He leaves that to his bully boys at the front door - the ones that took the crutches away from a disabled lady who was not allowed to enter his cruddy establishment. Making the area a safer place to socialise will encourage people to go there. And FYI Cllr Heath, ANY violence is unacceptable. If you want to use glass, get a bottle from the off license or supermarket and drink at home. Set a good example for once.
Posted by: Billy Nomates, Basingstoke on 3:11pm Wed 21 May 08
I love you too Julie <BIG HUG> X X X
Perhaps a Christmas card this year ;-)
Posted by: Picket Dewfury, Basingstoke on 4:00pm Thu 22 May 08
You've got about as much chance of that as you have getting a Birthday Cake from Simon Preedy.
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